Late summer 2002. Two blocks from San Francisco's tie-dye-wearing, incense-burning Haight-Ashbury, Meat Katie (real name Mark Pember) chats with a tag team of Breaksworld reporters. He is staying with a local San Francisco deejay, Felix the Dog, and Breaksworld's reporters marvel at 1) how they live so close to Felix's apartment and have never once seen him out in the day, and 2) at how Felix always has the newest, hottest tracks from overseas.

Amidst lattes, a BLT and really bad coffee shop music, we begin.....

Breaksworld: How do US deejays get stuff from the UK so quickly?

Meat Katie: Well, Felix [the Dog] is very connected anyway. He knows a lot of people. He introduced me to Lee Coombs and that's how I started working with him. I send Felix new stuff and I know Rennie [Pilgrem] does, BLIM does. Lee Coombs does. So you know, he's getting the stuff the same time as everyone else does.I like what Felix plays. I think he's a good DJ. He plays a hybrid of music, he's not just locked into just breaks. He plays house and techno as well. And I really respect that.

In my profession I meet people that know nothing about music outside of what they play and all they talk about is the beat. To write music that I like I need different influences, different vibes. It freaks me out when I meet these kids and they're, like, "We only like Freq Nasty and Aquasky". And these kids are talking about "my favorite label" and they're labels that only put out like 2 or 3 records. How can that be your favorite label?! They haven't even developed as a label yet, they've just put out a couple of their mates' tunes!

BW: Can you talk about the projects you're working on right now?

MK: I haven't been in the studio for three months so I haven't worked on anything, except I remixed Lee Coombs' stuff. I've done two tracks with Lee Coombs, and a compilation. I've done no original stuff of my own for a while because I haven't been in the studio. I did 3 recent remixes, one for an act called Electro Acoustic, which is one guy from Brand New Heavies. It's a track called "Liberty". I did a remix for Ministry of Sound, for an act called Hatricks and Gallahads, it's a lyrical pop song. Needless to say, it doesn't sound much like the original. And I 've done a remix for Bedrock. The artist is called Knuckles and the track is called "Locked On."

BW: What artists do you like inside or outside of the breakbeat?

MK: I love Phil Kieran. Have you heard Phil Kieran?

BW: Yeah, yeah. His stuff, there's nothing like it.

MK: Yeah he makes amazing tech-house. Phil is an amazing DJ. He's from Belfast. He's mad. I really like the guy and I totally respect him musically. And it's good to know that he's a normal everyday bloke as well, not too up in it. Love Phil Keiran's stuff, big fan of Duncan Gray. Duncan's one half of Underground. They do electro, but Duncan has his own side project under his name. He makes a lot of house, tech-house, but he makes a style of house. He makes, like, electro-house. Like really dirty, grinding house, but it works really well with the style of music that I make. I find I have to take his music out of my box because I play so much of it.

I'm still a big fan of TCR, I know that all these kind of jeerists are like, "Oh, TCR, TCR, TCR...," but they're a great label and they always deliver. It's very rare that I don't like something of theirs. Outside of breaks I like a lot of West Coast house. Really big fan of Halo, H-Foundation.

BW: Can we talk a little about whole Nine Yards? When did it get started?

MK: It'll be four years in September.

BW: Who exactly is behind it? Just you?

MK: No, but I started the label. It started with an act called Rhythm Division. We're now releasing an album by them, it only took them four years to prepare that. [update: Rhythm Division's "Divided Rhythms" album recently came out]

And I was at Kingsize [Records] and I knew Lee, one of the guys. I went to school with him and then I was at Kingsize and he just came in the studio and he played a few tunes, and bizarrely enough they weren't into it. I thought the tunes were wicked so I was like, "I'll put them out." And from there it was like, I'm going start a label, because I had some tunes to put some out, you know. So it sort of went from there. There was no game plan, it was just "[let's] put a few tunes out", now I'm amazed at how well it's gone. We sell a lot of records.

BW: How many acts are on it right now?

MK: Oh, well I work regularly with Elite Force, Dylan Rhymes and DJ Hyper, who's got some new stuff in the works which hopefully will be waiting for me when I go home. I'm gonna put some stuff out by this guy called Kemek. You heard of this guy?

BW: Yeah, the computer guy?

MK: Yeah Kemek the Dope Computer, but I told him to remove the name Dope Computer from his name. I'm not having the words 'Dope Computer' on one of my records.

He's really good. He's going two tracks that we may put out. He's the first American guy that I've worked with. He's done a vocal track that's a little bit lighter than what we normally do, but that's the joy of being the owner of your own label. You decide. And then we've got Quinn Whalley, him and Dylan Rhymes got a project together [called Kerb Crawler]. It's kind of just the people I know. Solid Ground, they're working on an album, really slowly, in no hurry. I rarely take on new people because I'm so busy with the existing artists.

BW: How long have you been spinning and producing?

MK: I've been producing way longer than I've been DJing. DJing is very secondary for me, I'm a producer first.

BW: How did you start DJing?

MK: [laughs] People started asking me to deejay.

BW: That's exactly what Freq Nasty said when I interviewed him. He was like, "I never wanted to be a DJ". He said he wishes he wasn't deejaying because he'd rather be in the studio.

MK: That's me. I totally, absolutely agree with what he said. I never wanted to be a DJ, I come from playing in bands, like I played bass guitars. All of a sudden I got introduced to James McRyan. I started a project with him and that was like eight years ago, nine years ago which was called Global Sounds on Ceasefire. So I was, like, "Fuck being in a band, it's hard work." You might as well do it on your own. It made a lot of sense. And I liked funk, jazz, hiphop and tried to figure out where the breaks were. So I had a lot of stuff to sample. That was the sound then.

It's just developed and moved on, become a little more techy. And people stripped down the samples a little bit, making new sounds out of them instead of using them in a drum loop. You'd use a kick, a snare, a hat and build up your own drum loop. And now other people sample your drum loop.

BW: Has deejaying been beneficial to you?

MK: I've learned a lot, yeah. I think my production has become a little bit more dancefloor. I've become a little more aware when I sit in the studio, having an ear for when certain things are not working, other things are working. I try little tricks, you know, nicking tricks other producers use. I know what works. I learned a lot from DJing but I didn't want to do it, you know. It's like the kid that doesn't want to do something and then when they actually do it they're like 'Oh, I'm actually enjoying this." It's like that.

I've just done a mix compilation, "Beyond the Darkness". Again, I never wanted to do a mix compilation, but someone asked me too. It's gone a lot better than I had expected.
I toured all over Europe last year and I toured Australia earlier in the year.

If you like breakbeat, move to Australia - there's nowhere like it. Australia and Spain are the main [countries for] breakbeat, followed by America. In America it's kind of a cool cult thing. But in Australia it's fucking mainstream. Our headliners are 1,000-1,500 people, I've been doing that sized gigs. Now, [when] I go out to Spain, I'll do headlines for 2,000 or 3,000. But they're not all there for you, they're there because it's breakbeat. And they're there because they love breaks. It's a bit harder. You know all the local DJs, they're all really good DJs, they play this fucking nosebleed, hard slamming electro, it's just like stuff you've never heard. I was like, "I wish I could find this music!" And the kids, it's very druggy, especially because they are very young, very ravey as well. Like under 18. I think that's going to change though, they had a massive party and two 12-year-old kids died.

BW: What would you say about the sound in America?

MK: The DJs are amazing. I think the breaks DJs in America are phenomenal. In honesty I think the production side of things is pretty poor. It's because they spend too much time being good DJs, I think, and not [enough] in the studio.

BW: What is it about the production?

MK: I don't know what it is. It just doesn't sound like the true music. It just sounds like they all do it on their computers. They don't have proper set-ups outside a package like Fruity Loops or Reason.

I would recommend starting off using Logic. I don't know any studios in the UK that use just [computers]. I know people have laptops, but they have studios as well. They make it as good as they can get it on their laptop and then they take it to their studio or another studio. We use samplers, external keyboards, sound effects and to use something on the computer as well. I think that's why it sounds a little bit more mature, because they're using a variety of techniques to come up with that sound. Out here [in the USA] it just sounds very synthetic, it doesn't sound very mature. That's all I can say, that's the only word I think of for it.

And also it's kind of [that] you don't have very many producers creating their own sound. It seems like they sound like not such a good version of another producer. It's very sort of Freq Nasty-wannabe … It takes a little bit more than that. That's why I was very surprised when this guy Kemek, he'd been sending me stuff for fucking ages, I've probably lost count of how many CDs I have of his music and then all of a sudden one arrived, and if I hear something I like and I think its got potential I always email people back. I point out what part of the production I like and try to be detailed as well. I say what it is I don't like and I do like, I won't just email them and be like, fuck off, I think that would be a waste of their time. All I'm saying to them is if you tweak your sound if you change that we can get this rolling add a little bit of depth to the sound or whatever it may be, then I will release it. I don't mean it to put them down, just to say what would be right for me you know. I've got loads of demos that I've passed on to people that have been released on other labels because it has their flavor and their sound. Just because it's not right for me, doesn't mean that it's wrong.

BW: What are your plans for the future?

MK: I'm going to decorate my front room. I can't wait to decorate my front room. I need to build some stairs going into my loft.

BW: You live in London?

MK:Yeah I live in southwest London. It's a little bit greener.

BW: Little bit quieter.

MK: Yeah, I like it. There's a few people who live close to me. Like, Klaus from Two Sinners lives down the road and Glen (Future Funk Squad) lives around the corner. It has a good little scene. There's a lot of house as well where I live. There's a really strong house scene. It's a bigger scene. You go to a good breaks show and there's hardly anyone there and then you go to a house party and it's packed. And you can understand it as well. You can go, "Yeah, I understand why the girls are bouncing, it's dance music." Australia is one of the only places you go where the girls are as much into it as the guys, if not more. I found it a very inspiring place to deejay. I'm lucky I've gotten really good distribution deal out there. I really like playing there and I think it's important to go back. People like Martin Reeves [Krafty Kuts], he played a few weeks after me. And we had like 1,500-1,800 people in there, he sold 2,500 thousand in advance! He's popular.

BW: He's one we don't get out here.

MK: I know. It's really funky beats. I really like Martin. He's a nice guy, family guy. He has two kids and a wife and shit. When I speak to me he always speaks on the phone for hours, literally. And then he's like, "Funky beats is making a big comeback!" and I'm like, "You fucking wish".

BW: What other plans do you have?

Well I'm starting a monthly [called Hum] with Rennie. We've just found this new gaf in London Bridge called Jax and we've got this 10pm-6am license, it takes about 350 people, it's got a stage in the back, 6-foot speakers. The first party is me, Rennie, Elite Force and Lee Coombs. It's an album launch party. And the second one in August is me, Rennie and Hybrid. We have no kind of plans for it, but we're going to just keep it across the board. Don't get too caught up in the club thing. Just put on good music. The kind of people I want playing there are people like Lee Burridge and Danny Howell because these guys can play breaks that are at least as good if not better than most breaks. Their tracks selection is slightly different and the way that they play breaks is different as well. Again, I'd like Phil Kieran to play, but he's busy touring now.

We're going to do some live stuff as well, have album launch parties. Just have a really cool club, not too expensive to get in. Just have a real, honest night out.

Hum, with residents Meat Katie and Rennie Pilgrem, takes place every first Saturday of the month at Jax, Shand Street, London SE. For more info see www.humclub.com. Meat Katie is working on a new album (due in 2003) and has also embarked on a new 12" series called 'Meat Katie meets...' The first 12" in the series was a collaboration with Elite Force called "Toba", a massive tribal workout of a tune that has been flying high in every magazine chart and getting airplay and reviews by the handful. The next in the series, Meat Katie meets Lee Coombs – "Two Men on a Trip", was released last month thru Finger Lickin'. Further works are in the pipeline.

For more info about Meat Katie, see:

http://www.meatkatie.com/
http://www.w9y.co.uk/
http://www.kingsize.co.uk/